Interview: Ben LeRoy
An internet chat with a very interesting dude
by Taylor Hruby
You never know where you're going to find your favorite song or an interesting dude or an interesting tale. You might be walking in the mall; at a show, waiting for the band you paid to see come on; you might be re-listening to an album you've heard a thousand times; hanging out with someone you've known for years. I found all those things the other day and it all started with a Propagandhi retweet:
Here's some random dude, telling Twitter that he loves Propagandhi, which is a sentiment I can get behind. I especially enjoyed it because Propagandhi has been making this same joke about needing to dump so many copies of Potemkin City Limits to make it profitable for a while now. Anyway, I favorited the tweet and hit a drive on hole 6 at Prairiewood. I only remember that because that's when I watched the video, not because I hit a good shot. I'm sure it was awful.
I played a few holes, then saw this:
Now that's pretty cool! I knew I liked this dude already. So, this being Twitter, I figured I'd follow him and see what his deal was. I do this a lot, follow people who tweet something I like, then forget about them and have no idea who they are. Mostly I just follow Canadians who write about hockey, so I've been rather knowledgable on the Canadian election and the Blue Jays postseason run. Anyway, on October 15th, The Ben LeRoy, tweeted this and it's why we're here today:
This is something I have some interest in. I have my radio in my car set to a wacky, Baptist, church station that talks about some duuuummmmb stuff. I listen to it all the time because my tape player doesn't work in the cold. Seriously. Plus, I really enjoy this song by Evergrey, so I told him I'd be interested in hearing said songs. He asked me to send him an email address and he'd get back to me. I didn't know what to expect, but I didn't expect much.
I just happened to check my email, which I barely ever do and found two tracks in my inbox. He even brought up PINM (it's in my Twitter bio)! The first song was pretty bad ass. I liked it, but it wasn't anything too crazy. The second one was really good. I was listening to it on my phone in my office and it stopped me in my tracks. He was definitely on to something.
I emailed him back and, since he brought up PINM, I asked him if he wanted to chat a bit. But something happened in between his first email and his answer to my interview request. He sent me another email. This is all it said:
“Longer response coming later, but I wanted to send this one to you, too. There's a break that happens here that was totally unintentional but fucking amazing. I think this is my favorite.
I'm like you when it comes to listening to these preachers--tv or street--the crazier and more intense, the longer I'll sit and listen.”
And it had a track attached to it and the track was called “Apostolic Post Rock #K”. Again, I found myself at work, again I opened up this song on my phone and again, my productivity screeched to a halt. I told him what I'll tell you: I have no words to describe this track. None. So I'm not even going to try.
So, I decided I should talk to Ben and try and get to know him a little bit better. It went way better than expected because, it turns out, Ben is an insanely interesting dude. It was also a bit longer than I anticipated, but that's because talking to Ben was incredibly easy.
After we exchanged some pleasantries, we hit the most important question that would probably be asked that night:
Ben: Blackhawks playing tonight?
Me: Yes sir. Against the Oilers. Are you a hockey fan at all? [The Blackhawks went on to win 4-2]
Ben: No. And I'm ashamed of that a little bit because the University of Wisconsin is three miles away and I know there's a proud history. I dig it during the Olympics or the Frozen Four, but I'm more of a slower paced baseball guy.
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Ben's a Cubs fan, so we talked a little bit about the Cubbies, the Mariners and the legacy of Ken Griffey Jr. on the field and digitally, in video game form. We also talked about NHL '94, which is the best game of all time. I was warming up to Ben pretty quickly.
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Me: So tell me about yourself, man.
Ben: Born in 1976 in Madison. Public school. Shitty university (University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee). Started a company back in the late 90s, early 2000s that was supposed to be a multi-media conglomerate (we were all in our late teens)--publishing books, managing bands, making movies.
All of that turned out to be bullshit except publishing books. Been making a living doing that, first at a company I started called Bleak House Books, sold it to a larger company in 2005, stuck with it until 2009, got in a fight with management and left to start a new company, sold that in 2011 and it's where I still work.
[And] Last year I did the volunteer work in all 50 States.
Me: I saw that! You were interviewed on Fox News?! Tell me a little more about that.
Ben: It was cool. My friend Pete killed himself in 2013 and left behind this really long and amazing suicide note and in it he talked about how we have to balance wanting to do good with earning a living and that the system, as it's set up right now, is totally fucked and there's no way you can do all the good AND work a job, so I basically was like, "Bullshit. Watch, dude."
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I asked him what he did in North Dakota and he linked me to Be Local Everywhere. You should check out that site because it is awesome to see the scope of what this dude accomplished. We talked a little bit more about that.
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Ben: BUT, it wasn't all feel good shit last year. Learned a lot of tough lessons, saw a lot of sad shit. Almost got robbed/killed under a bridge. You ever see the documentary The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia?
Me: I have not.
Ben: Here's what I'm talking about:
Ben: The only sip of alcohol I've had in my whole life, was moonshine with Mamie White at her birthday party in Boone County, West Virginia. She became friendly with me and then pulled out a mason jar of moonshine, poured some into a styrofoam cup, took a sip and handed me the rest.
Of course, I messed up this all up by not asking him more about it, but I saw that he had never drank before, so naturally...
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Me: Waaaait a minute. Are you Straight Edge or just not a drinker?
Ben: Just not a drinker. I had people around me who were big drinkers that scared the fuck out of me when I was a kid and I knew I'd be a bad alcoholic.
Me: That's a pretty odd coincidence. But I am "Straight Edge", whatever the fuck any of that even means to a 28 year old with no connections to the "scene" anymore. hahaha.
Ben: I never self-identified as Straight Edge, but I was that kid in high school and college who didn't drink and didn't smoke.
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We talked about that for a bit, but then we hopped back into his travels and, eventually, the song you [definitely should have] just listened to.
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Ben: Somewhere along all the miles I've driven over the last decade, I started getting fascinated the same way you are with radio evangelists. I dated a girl in Nashville who grew up in a really religious household, and she introduced me to a lot of that culture--mega churches, fiery sermons, etc.
Me: Yes! That's why we're here! Let's talk about radio evangelism!
Ben: Well, as we've previously discussed--I grew up a big professional wrestling fan. I can't really articulate why, even at this age, but I still find watching shit from the early to mid '80s comforting. And there's an art to the promo that's captivating. You know it's bullshit, but somehow forget, or maybe it's not as bullshit as you want to think it is, and you get captivated. That blending of what's real and what's not and how do we know.
Me: You're preaching to the choir there, my man [horrible pun unintended]. I still watch it, just because it meant so much to me back then.
Ben: The same thing happens with some of the evangelical stuff. I don't know how much of it is real, how much is an act, how much is hope, but after a while I just shrugged and said--"Fuck it. It doesn't matter what the guy believes, it's an art."
Me: I was absolutely blown away by the preacher in “#K” talking about owning what's left. I kind of mentioned before that I am an Athiest, but I love that message. I absolutely loved the build up, the drop, jesus, man. Everything. The message...
Ben: Yeah, I love it, too. The best part was that it was accidental. I'd like to take credit for that drop, because it's dope as fuck, but I just cut out the part of the preaching that I liked and dropped it over the song. And that's how it synced up.
Me: Divine intervention.
Ben: Yeah, man. Right? God works in mysterious (audio) ways. The very first project that I did like this was using Sony Acid to create a beat behind the audio of the last hour recorded at Jonestown (which is grim as fuck). You ever heard that? Because it's crazy to hear Jim Jones telling people to drink Kool Aid and to shoot themselves.
Me: Holy balls. I would like to hear that, but I may slip into a massive depression. But i think it's a very real side to, maybe, the other side of the preacher coin.
Ben: Well, if you ever want to hit the button (and yeah, it's as dark as you'd imagine).
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I decided not to listen to that clip at the time, but I've listened to it since. I wouldn't exactly recomend it, but it is pretty fascinating. We ducked back into the preacher of our original clip.
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Ben: That guy is a perfect example. His name is Jeff Arnold and he has this super amazing delivery. (Did I send you his “My Cup Runneth Over” sermon?) Because if I haven't, I should have. It's essentially Ric Flair talking about God.
Ben: This is the same dude about the “Lord of What's Left”.
Me: That is the EXACT way I thought he would look.
Simultaneously:
Me: He's Ric Flair stomping around!!!
Ben: He's got the Flair strut.
Me: See, now, I love this, but how does this work, you know? How does this make people shout “Amen!”? Are you a Christian? (if you don't want to answer that that's fine, if you don't want this in, that's fine. That's just out of curiosity. I have no intention of making this a religious discussion).
Ben: I love this conversation and will talk about religion all day. I am NOT a Christian. I don't actually have any particular religion that I'd identify myself as a part of. BUT, the actual teachings of Christ -- stripped of all the manipulation, the exploitation, the ignorance both willful and unintentional -- are fucking righteous as all hell. So I'm good with Jesus, but I think I understand Jesus a lot differently than Jeff Arnold or the people in his audience.
Me: I would completely agree with that. I have an issue with the way religion is used in our time today, I have no issue with the original message.
Ben: And to me, it doesn't matter if Jesus ever really lived. Doesn't matter about the details. Doesn't even matter if he was alive and he wasn't the Son of God. It's the message that's important. I think if he did, it's likely quite different than any version that is commonly put forth. And I'm even more skeptical of the Virgin Birth thing
Me: Definitely. It just seems like a solid message, skewed by some goofy shit to make it seem more 'godly' for lack of a better term. To me, anyway.
Ben: For sure. I agree. When I was on my trip last year, I ended up doing volunteer work at a few churches/religiously affiliated places, and at first I dreaded what might happen when I told them I wasn't part of the flock. But by the end, they were like, "You get it. How can we disagree with the way you approach life?" A lot of those people aren't even really prepared to discuss your lack of faith at much past a Sunday School level.
Me: Dude, that's fantastic. If a person is good, a person is good. I don't care if they ask God to help them or Satan or Allah or whatever. I think that's very accurate. I see a lot of 'Well what happens when you die? HUH?! Then what, smart guy!' and such basic questions and it's like, that's it? That's your trump card? I'm supposed to believe now? It's very odd.
Ben: It's fascinating, man. It really is.
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We talked about Propagandhi and about music. We talked about shows we've been to and I linked him to some old ass Takes Manhattan shit that he very politely said he was digging. Eventually we headed down a road about our planet and it's eventual demise. We talked a lot about our feelings towards the world and about how I feel the need to “grow up” and what that means to me. It ended up being very personal (in the best way) but probably not overly interesting to anyone other than he and I, in that moment. So I wanted to close this with one of the best things from the latter part of our conversation and one of the things that really stuck with me after talking to Ben.
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Me: I just don't know if I'm capable of that [“that” being in reference to something he had said earlier: "'I don't know shit about anything, let's see what's going on in the world!' And then you see the beauty in things that you missed before.”]. Maybe it's stubbornness, or something else.
Ben: I understand the resistance dude. I really do. And I wouldn't begin to tell somebody else how to think. But I, in my experience, have gone from "FUCK THIS WHOLE PLANET, I'D BLOW IT UP IF I COULD," to "Holy shit, this is amazing, and I don't care what the origin story is or what happens next, so I'm going to just surf this wave until whatever." To be clear, there have been A LOT of obstacles in the way of my happiness and it's not always a smooth ride, but it's worth it. Again, for me.
Not trying to preach up in here like I was Jeff Arnold.